I'm having a minor camera conundrum

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/23/2017 at 14:30 • Filed to: None

I have 3 cameras: an Olympus E-PL5 with assorted lenses, an old Panasonic ZR1 P&S, and my Moto X Pure. I’m a photo nerd but the majority of the photos I take nowadays are on my phone, because it’s what I have with me most often. I’m trying to decide whether I to buy a new camera. Help me!

This is going to be a long-ass post. Sorry, not sorry.

But for the TL;DR crowd: I exhaustively looked through the options and I’m confident there are no suggestions for other cameras that will interest me. Just the 3 in this post. Thanks.

My little Panasonic ZR1 is a basic teeny P&S that happens to have an 8x, 25-200mm equivalent zoom lens. I got it in 2010. I don’t use it that much. Mostly it’s the camera I give to my wife if we’re traveling.

My E-PL5 is my serious camera and gets a fair amount of use, but generally I don’t carry it with me on a daily basis. It’s not quite pocketable, but with my Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 lens, it’s pretty dang small for a serious camera. It’s still a lot bigger than the ZR1.

Before my honeymoon, I thought about getting some kind of newer P&S to go along with the E-PL5, but didn’t pull the trigger on anything. So I went on the trip, and I used the ZR1 in certain situations, and in daylight, it’s capable of some decent enough shots (with a little help from Photoshop in getting the most of them).

The long (for a pocket cam) zoom occasionally comes in handy as well, like when trying to get shots of little critters.

None of these pictures hold up to pixel-peeping scrutiny, but they look pretty decent, and I’m totally happy with them! One thing I noticed when tweaking them in Photoshop is compared to pictures from my phone, I was able to recover more detail from the shadows, and retain more detail while punching up the contrast and saturation.

The problem is, it’s hot garbage in low light. I took it to a super fancy restaurant for my wife’s birthday dinner and the pictures there were particularly disappointing. Loads of noise and no detail at all.

These results are after trying to get something out of the originals in Photoshop. Not so good.

Hell, I would’ve been better off with my phone, because while it’s not amazing, its HDR mode does a halfway decent job of reducing noise in low light. Here’s an example food shot from an Ethiopian restaurant that had a bit more light, but it was still indoors at night.

It’s not full-on food porn quality but definitely a significant improvement. If I do want low light food porn, the E-PL5 is capable of it.

On the one hand, I could just chalk this up as having the wrong tool for the job at the bday dinner, and now I know that if I want half decent low light shots with available light, don’t use the damn ZR1.

On the other hand, I’m a photo nerd but at this point mostly take pictures with my phone. Because it’s usually what I have with me. A friend of mine pointed this out to me a couple weeks ago, in fact. “Are you still into photography? Because all I see you post on fb & instagram is from your phone.”

I could bring my E-PL5 and 14mm with me more frequently, but I feel like it’s a bit too chunky. I also like the idea of having a second, smaller camera that I can carry daily, or give to my wife when I have the E-PL5.

So I’ve been looking at some of the newer p&s options and these are things I want:

Small

Better image quality than my phone, especially in low light

Some degree of manual controls

Wifi for connecting to my phone on the fly

Flip-up screen for selfies (call me vain if you want)

Panorama mode

For reference, here’s what pictures from my E-PL5 can look like:

THE CONTENDERS

I searched high and low for some ideas, and here’s what I’ve landed on for options. If you have some other idea, well, I probably ruled it out for some reason or another. Thanks though!

Casio ZR5000 - $300

Casio doesn’t officially sell cameras in the US anymore but this can be gotten from some sellers anyway. It has a 1/1.7” sensor so it’s at least somewhat better in low light than the 1/2.3” sensors in most other P&S cameras and higher-end phones. The aperture starts at f/2.7 on the 19mm equivalent super wide end of the zoom.

The ZR5000 has a very basic multi-frame HDR mode like a lot of phones (including mine, and the Pixel) use to improve dynamic range and noise, but it’s a mode unto itself that blocks all manual controls.

It was difficult to find sample images out there to see what its low light image quality really is like. I did find !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! but it’s not exactly a great set of pictures. This shot was taken at ISO 800 and looks ok although pixel peeping does show some grain and lack of detail from noise reduction.

Daylight shots are also...ok if uninspiring.

This one though worries me—it has bad purple fringing on the places where the leaves are in front of the bright sky.

Sony HX80 - $340

This is a super zoom with a 1/2.3” sensor like my Panasonic ZR1. But it’s had many years worth of improvements in sensor and image processing. The zoom range is a huge 30x, 24-720mm equivalent.

The smaller sensor and higher resolution (18 MP vs. 12 MP) put it at a disadvantage to the Casio in low light, but its low light shots are still acceptably decent. There’s a bit more grain and smearing of details but they don’t make me want to cry like the ZR1 shots. It has a couple different HDR modes that can be used in normal shooting modes with manual controls.

It also has a nifty pop-up viewfinder which is surprisingly good, even though I’m not much of a viewfinder guy.

BLUE STEEL.

The night shots are ok, if less detailed than the Casio ZR5000, and the long zoom shots are seriously impressive for a camera this small.

Panasonic LX10 - $650

This is Panasonic’s answer to the Sony RX100 series: a relatively compact camera with a 1” sensor and fast aperture lens, the combination of which give good results in low light and ability to blur backgrounds. Don’t need to mess with artificial blurry backgrounds or HDR modes when you have a nice big sensor and fast aperture lens. It also shoots 4K video.

While it’s not going to fully equal my E-PL5 in image quality, it will at least get somewhat in the ballpark. It can do food porn! Here are some samples.

In terms of image quality, it does pretty much everything I want, but then how much am I going to want to bring a $650 camera with me everywhere?

I think in the short term I’m going to carry the E-PL5 and 14mm with me and see what opportunities present themselves. Only thing is it doesn’t have wifi because it’s an older model so right now my way of getting photos from it to my phone is to use this little micro USB SD card reader.

But hey, I already own it, and it’s better than any of these P&S models, at least in terms of image quality.

So if you were me, what would you buy (if anything)?

DISCUSSION (18)

inramana > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 14:45

Used RX100, unless I skipped some parts of the long ass post where you talked about it.

Ilike_cougars > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 14:45

I used to lug a dslr on my travels, and let it be said.. it was a hassle everytime. Starting last year.. I have been carrying around a Fuji X10 It may not be the best but its got decent zoom range and goes to f2.8 with the lens and I have got some decent landscape shots with its wide angle with a gorilla pod .. Other Fuji cameras may also be worth a look?

Textured Soy Protein > inramana
03/23/2017 at 14:48

I didn’t specifically talk about it but the RX100 I & II don’t have the selfie flip screen I want. The III, IV and V do but they’re more expensive than the Panasonic LX10.

Textured Soy Protein > Ilike_cougars
03/23/2017 at 14:52

I also used to have a few different DSLRs but got sick of lugging around. That’s why I have the mirrorless. The Fuji X20 is actually bigger than my E-PL5. The Fuji XQ2 is more in line with the size I want but it lacks a flip screen.

OKcarburetor > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 16:54

Sony RX100 can be found used for ~250. That would be my choice.

Textured Soy Protein > OKcarburetor
03/23/2017 at 17:06

I want something with a flip-up screen and that was only introduced on the RX100 III. Between that and the LX10 it’s a bit of a toss-up for me. RX100 III has the viewfinder and Best Buy is selling it open box on ebay for $559. But that’s still pricey.

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 18:21

If you are going P&S then go for the Sony RX100 III, you will not regret it. My cousin got one on my suggestion and it works great, she loves it. Get it open box or slightly used from Adorama or B&H if they have one.

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 18:31

As a M4/3 enthusiast I can say that there might be a better choice for you, have you thought of the Olympus Air? It is pocket-able, uses your current lenses, can use a compact electric zoom lens (get the Panasonic H-PS14042), and it is WIFI capable. It uses your phone as its screen so you can easily switch between the two, and you can get some creative ass selfies with it. While you are at it upgrade to the Google Pixel and then buy two really good external power packs to keep the phone and Air charged throughout the day. I personally carry either an E-M10 or E-M1 with me depending on needs and my wife is using a Panasonic GM5 with the PZ lenses. I have a good mix of Olympus and Panasonic lenses in my kit, the Air is going to replace my Sony QX10 that I use now for my light travel needs.

If you are intent on a P&S go for the Sony RX100 III, it is 100% worth it and will give you better quality than anything else you are looking at. Also the damn thing is rock solid, my cousin has one and her kids slightly abuse it and it is still living. If you want to get rid of the M4/3 stuff let me know and I will be more than happy to get it off your hands. I am starting to collect stuff from the format. My current body list includes

Panasonic:
GF2, GH3, GM1, GM5 (the wifes)

Olympus:
E-M1, E-M10, E-P3, Air (shipping)

I forget all the lenses I have but there are like 7 or 8 and they range from 12mm all the way to 400M in size, mostly zooms right now. I am going to start building my prime lens collection this year.

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/23/2017 at 18:38

I’m thinking about it more now. Part of the reason I had gravitated to the LX10 out of the 1” sensor models is when I looked on Google Shopping, the RX100 III was a good $100 more than the LX10. But that $559 Best Buy open box deal on ebay is pretty good.

In favor of the LX10: touch screen, faster aperture from 24 to 30 mm, 4k video, best AF performance in this segment except for RX100 V, better menu system

In favor of the RX100 III: viewfinder (but it powers off the camera when you lower it—later Sony models with the pop up viewfinder add the option to disable this behavior), better auto ISO customization, ND filter, HDR mode

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 18:45

Unless you have something that can show you 4K video the option is not worth it, the AF performance would lean me towards the LX10, but that viewfinder and ISO customization make this a hard choice. I still lean Sony, I think they really dominate this space. Hey you can find a RX100 V for a steal at $800 used!

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/23/2017 at 18:54

I’m not looking to ditch the m43 stuff. I’m thinking about a small complementary camera to it.

All I’ve got is the E-PL5, Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 & 25mm f/1.7, Olympus 40-150mm f/4-5.6. I have in the past had larger amounts of camera gear but I try to keep it minimalist nowadays.

There’s nothing really stopping me from taking the E-PL5 and 14mm around with me. I just feel slightly weird having a non-tiny camera on my person all the time.

The Olympus Air is interesting but it’s not exactly pocketable, it’s that cylinder shape and then you need to clamp it on to your phone, or not. Just seems like more fuss than I want to deal with.

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/23/2017 at 18:57

With the RX100 III being cheaper than the LX10, it’s a bit of a toss-up. I do think the RX100 IV and V are better than the LX10 but there are pros/cons of the LX10 vs. III.

The more I pixel peep the sub-1” sensor images the less I like them. $500+ for a little camera is a non-trivial purchase for me so I’m going to slow down on this. First step is see what happens with carrying the E-PL5 + 14mm. Might as well see about that.

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 21:32

I will say the Air is a little bigger than pocket-able, I have a whole handle and stand set up for my QX that I am going to use with the Air, it will have a wide prime on it, maybe a 14mm or 12mm lens. You should look at your next upgrade being an E-M5 Mark II, it is the best small M4/3 camera they make right now. I would replace the E-M10 but I want to buy up lenses first.

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/23/2017 at 22:14

I’ve been happy with the 14/2.5. Not sure if you have it but it’s a nice lens. Some of the formal tests of it gave me pause and I’m generally more a fan of the 24 and 35 angles of view (so 12 and 17 in m43). But between spending like a grand on the Olympus 12/2 and 17/1.8 and switching lenses more, or rolling with the 14 for a few hundred, well, I got the 14.

That’s my general trend, not overloading on gear. I’ll get the Panasonic 42.5/1.7 at some point, and maybe a new body, but I have no complaints with the E-PL5. If anything I’d go for a 20 MP body, maybe a Pen-F. But that’s a very low priority.

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/23/2017 at 23:13

Also look at the GX85 in the future, it is still a 16MP but it has IBIS and shoots 4K for a budget price. It is the GH4 in a small body. The Pen-F is a bit bulky, but a great shooter. My two deep wants are the Panasonic 42.5/1.7 and the Olympus 25/1.2, the images I could get on my E-M1 at Cars and Coffee would be amazing. Right now I am talking to a guy with the 17/1.8 and 45/1.8 from Olympus, it looks like he will let them go for $500. It will really help out my prime shooting.

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/24/2017 at 01:26

I say the Pen-F because it’s the smallest 20 MP body, that’s all.

The GX85 is nice but it’s still 16 MP and loses the selfie ability of the E-PL5, which also has IBIS. I’m no selfie fiend but do use it occasionally. I’m sure there are other improvements but I’m generally happy with the E-PL5 so a new body is a very low priority for me.

I assume at some point the 20 MP sensor will trickle down into smaller midrange bodies at which point maybe I’d be interested.

Really the more I think about different ways to spend money on gear, the more I think I should just make it a point to bring my E-PL5 along more often.

SOCdriver > Textured Soy Protein
03/24/2017 at 01:58

I am holding out that the next E-M5 or E-M10 will have a screen that articulates more and runs the 20MP sensor. It would be awesome if it was the E-M10 as I really love the size of the camera.

Textured Soy Protein > SOCdriver
03/24/2017 at 09:29

Needless to say, all the bodies are many subtle variations on the same theme. I went ahead and ordered a 32 GB Toshiba FlashAir SD card. The E-PL5 doesn’t have wifi built in, but it does have a section in its menu to turn the wifi in the FlashAir card on and off. Which is good, because apparently if you use a random wifi SD card that your camera can’t control, the wifi stays on all the time and eats your battery.

I shoot RAW+JPEG so for serious shots I can always go back with my computer and work on the RAW file, but it’ll be nice to fling a jpeg over to my phone, tweak it in Snapseed, and throw it online quickly.

The more I think about it, rather than get something like an RX100, I could keep the E-PL5 as my take-everywhere camera, and at some point get a fancier body as my “serious” camera, but that’s still not something I’m in a rush to do.